VFT

Australian Federal, State and Local Politics
Forum rules
Don't poop in these threads. This isn't Europe, okay? There are rules here!
Post Reply
User avatar
billy the kid
Posts: 5814
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:54 pm

VFT

Post by billy the kid » Wed May 13, 2020 1:43 pm

"One of the most ironically depressing examples of lost opportunities is the saga of the Very Fast Train (VFT), which also ran afoul of the 1980s hijacking of Australia by economic rationalists. Australians of a certain age will remember the on-again, off-again discussion of the VFT, perhaps through the prism of the media cynicism about the project. But what they likely won’t appreciate is the depth of work that went into developing the concept as a commercially viable project.
Dr Paul Wild was the head of the CSIRO in 1983 when he took the train from Canberra to Sydney. Despite being called the XPT (“express passenger train”), the trip was very slow, slower than express trains in England in the 1840s! Being in charge of Australia’s scientific and industrial brains trust, Paul Wild set out to develop a cutting-edge fast rail service between Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne, with eventual extensions to Brisbane and Adelaide. The proposal was made public in 1984, but the Hawke-Keating government—busy sacrificing the Australian dollar to international speculators and opening Australia up to foreign banks—rubbished the idea. Transport Minister Peter Morris insisted Dr Wild organise it as an entirely privately-funded project. Dr Wild wasn’t then seeking public funding for the project, just for a study, and he shot back: “In many areas Australia needed desperately to dig itself out of the stagnation of 19th-century thought.”
By 1985 Paul Wild had pulled together a joint venture involving Sir Peter Abeles’ TNT, Japanese construction firm Kumagai Gumi, and Elders IXL; BHP, then a steel company, joined in 1987. The VFT Pre-Feasibility Study completed in 1987 found that the project was technically feasible and financially viable. (This was at a time when, despite Australia’s low population density, the Sydney-Melbourne flight route was the fourth busiest in the world; today it is the second busiest in the world, and the populations of Sydney and Melbourne have more than doubled.)
Over the next few years the relevant federal and state governments examined the proposal. The original plan was for a coastal route through Cooma, Orbost and Gippsland to Melbourne, which included the potential of regional development. In 1990 this was compared with an inland route essentially down the Hume Highway, which the Joint Venture then announced as its preferred option, purely on cost. Dr Wild was disappointed that governments were not interested in the development benefits of the project for south-eastern Australia. In October 1990 an Access Economics study showed the project would have a net benefit to the nation of $9.9 billion, but the federal and state governments would not move on the tax treatment the project needed. After the Keating government gave the project a flat “no” in 1991, the joint venture ceased work on the project. In a bitter irony for Dr Wild and his colleagues, not long afterwards the Commonwealth government introduced infrastructure bonds, which would have solved the VFT Joint Venture’s financial issues.
Dr Wild was criticised for aiming for a speed of 360 km/h, or 100 metres per second, at a time when the fastest train in the world, France’s TGV, only reached 270 km/h, but now much greater speeds are commonplace—Australia could have been a world-leader in high-speed rail technology. While he was working on the VFT, Dr Wild also did some work on a proposal for a high-speed train from Beijing to Shanghai. China went on to build a fast train from Beijing to Shanghai, which it completed in 2008, and has since built more than 35,000 kilometres of high-speed rail, using Australian iron ore, while Australia has not laid a single metre of track.
Australia needs a vision for economic development to revive the economy. "

YEP...great work by our Governments since then....great work....
Interesting also as a mate of mine was recently saying we should build a huge railway from
over here to over there.....
Naaah…….too hard...... :rofl
To discover those who rule over you, first discover those who you cannot criticize...Voltaire
Its coming...the rest of the world versus islam....or is it here already...

User avatar
Black Orchid
Posts: 25302
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:10 am

Re: VFT

Post by Black Orchid » Wed May 13, 2020 5:10 pm

I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of these fast trains. I would rather see cheaper flights but it would definitely help to revive the economy. Gladys has been pushing it for years within NSW. It would certainly take pressure off our major cities too. I think now she's just preoccupied with the Sydney Metro system.

Unlike most other countries we have cows and kangaroos who regularly just wander on to our railroad tracks and crashing in one of those things would be hideous but, yes, we are spread out and need it.

User avatar
Black Orchid
Posts: 25302
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:10 am

Re: VFT

Post by Black Orchid » Wed May 13, 2020 5:23 pm

Journey Current Time High-Speed RailTime >250km/h

Sydney to Gosford 1 Hour 19 Minutes 30 Minutes
Sydney to Wollongong 1 Hour 25 Minutes 30 Minutes
Sydney to Goulburn 2 Hours 31 Minutes 30 Minutes
Sydney to Newcastle 2 Hours 35 Minutes 45 Minutes
Sydney to Nowra 2 Hours 39 Minutes 45 Minutes
Sydney to Canberra 4 Hours 7 Minutes 1 Hour

This was Gladys's plan up until recently.

User avatar
billy the kid
Posts: 5814
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:54 pm

Re: VFT

Post by billy the kid » Wed May 13, 2020 5:41 pm

Don't know about the other trips but Sydney to Gosford in 30 minutes seems wishful thinking.
Theres a lot of hills to tunnel through/a river to cross..plus Woy Woy to Gosford will always be slow
unless the track goes straight up the Brisbane Water......and then theres Central to Hornsby...
Pretty much impossible Id think to do it in 30 minutes.....
Sad that the development mentioned in my OP talks about 35000k of track laid in China.....
BUT...... zero in Australia......
To discover those who rule over you, first discover those who you cannot criticize...Voltaire
Its coming...the rest of the world versus islam....or is it here already...

User avatar
brian ross
Posts: 6059
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:26 pm

Re: VFT

Post by brian ross » Wed May 13, 2020 8:43 pm

Basically the a VFT in Australia is uneconomic. The distances are too great and the volume of traffic too low to make them justifiable. Planes are more efficient and convenient for most passengers followed by cars. Personally, I like trains and enjoy traveling on them but most other Australians are different. Europe, Japan and China are different. They are small places and people are used to using trains.
Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. - Eric Blair

Juliar
Posts: 1355
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:56 am

Re: VFT

Post by Juliar » Thu May 14, 2020 1:10 pm

The VFT is basically a Greeny bad dream to try to sound intelligent.

The cost would be even more than Labor's abortive NeverBuiltNetwork!!!!

Sydney to Melbourne and Brisbane might be about the only possible profitable routes. The Greenies will want it "powered" by renewable "energy". But what happens at night when the wind stops ? What if there is a crash ? Will it be underground all the way to keep the kangaroos off the line ?

User avatar
Black Orchid
Posts: 25302
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:10 am

Re: VFT

Post by Black Orchid » Thu May 14, 2020 1:14 pm

That's my biggest concern with it. The cows and kangaroos always meandering or bouncing across our train tracks. This is a problem fairly unique to Australia.

Being totally underground obviously isn't viable but it would make it a lot safer and would get my tick of approval.

User avatar
Redneck
Posts: 6275
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: VFT

Post by Redneck » Thu May 14, 2020 1:30 pm

brian ross wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 8:43 pm
Basically the a VFT in Australia is uneconomic. The distances are too great and the volume of traffic too low to make them justifiable. Planes are more efficient and convenient for most passengers followed by cars. Personally, I like trains and enjoy traveling on them but most other Australians are different. Europe, Japan and China are different. They are small places and people are used to using trains.

Agree!

I doubt it will ever happen!

Bit like turning the northern rivers inland, pie in the sky stuff!

User avatar
billy the kid
Posts: 5814
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:54 pm

Re: VFT

Post by billy the kid » Thu May 14, 2020 2:48 pm

Note the final sentence of the OP....
"Australia needs a vision for economic development to revive the economy ...."
(The quote was from an Australian Citizens Party email....a practical suggestion by a political party.....)
Aaah fuck it...too hard...too costly...too many cows and kangaroos....
Why build anything in Australia.....
W've got a rock and a bridge......that'll do.....
Fuck it..... :rofl
To discover those who rule over you, first discover those who you cannot criticize...Voltaire
Its coming...the rest of the world versus islam....or is it here already...

User avatar
brian ross
Posts: 6059
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:26 pm

Re: VFT

Post by brian ross » Thu May 14, 2020 4:03 pm

You and the Australian Citizens Political Party can overlook reality if you desire, Billy. The people who govern Australia have to justify, even if only to themselves the economic reality of what they do. VFTs are unfortunately really only suitable for local travel. They are not justifiable to interstate travel. Use them for freight, rather than passenger travel and they might be viable - once you tax all the trucks off of the roads. As I have said, I am a bit of a romantic. I like trains and prefer them to planes. However, even I recognise the non-viability of VFTs downunder. Regional development will occur without them. All that is needed is vision from Government. Unfortunately, Government(s) in Australia lack vision.
Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. - Eric Blair

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests