World Government

[Swami Dring]

It's late, I'm tired and half cut, so if this thread is a shambolic croc, then tough titties, eh?

Nevertheless, the Mugabe debacle has reminded me yet again of an obvious and yet strangely unmentioned imperative.

That is, if our goal is a civilisation, our species must evolve from insular, suspicious national governments to a global government.

A suburban Mugabe-equivalent would be stomped by the local filth and so it would be with the actual Mugabe if we had a global authority.

Likewise, the war crimes perpertrated by Dubya and Team Big Cock in Iraq would never have happened. The wisdom of many heads would have prevailed over the Marty Bryantesque brutality and self-interest of but one juvenile, uncivilised cuntry.

Imagine all of the atrocities of the past and those yet to come which could have been prevented by the very long arm of world law.

We need it bad.

Only greed, stupidity and self-interest prevents it from becoming reality.

Let us go forth and kill the greedy, the stupid and the self-interested, yes, for they will not yield to the feeble lance of mere reason.

[JW Frogen]

If it were not for the “war criminals” W and team big cock then filthy dirty mass killer Saddam stays in power.

Yet you would remove Mugabe by force? Which would according to he UN charter be a war crime, as it is not self defense and China would veto, she does not want the precedent set for her in Tibet or for her oil interests in genocidal Sudan.

Not risk World War and go after the Chinese in Tibet?

OK?

See, this is why we don’t have a real world government, because human nations do not agree on what constitutes legitimate power and when to use it.

The US at least believes the only way to find out is with the consent of the governed.

As to “Let us go forth and kill the greedy, the stupid and the self-interested, yes, for they will not yield to the feeble lance of mere reason.”

They tried that in the French Revolution, they ended up killing each other off, because humans simply cannot agree on who the “greedy, stupid and self interested” really are.

By the way, why is it the pacifists who want to kill so much these days?

Happened in the late 1960s too.

Dangerous, dangerous thing, pacifism.

[boxy]

You're a fuckwit frogen. If the world govt that dring describes was in power, a global force would have outed sadman as well as magabee... and it wouldn't be pacifism (the hint is in the quote "let us go forth and kill").

Would it work so simply as dring describes?

No. Not quickly, not easily... perhaps not ever.

Think of the voting power of Chinese citizens as compared to New Zealand citizens...

Although, giving every Chinese citizen a vote, that can't be fixed or intimidated by their govt... how would they use that freedom?




It's an ideal that is a long way away. Wish I could trust in human nature enough to trust us with it.

[Swami Dring]

Old Froggy is still struggling with the concept of irony, I see.

If it makes sense for us to have local governments, state governments and federal governments then how exactly does it not make sense to have a global government?

One of the great benefits of government is the economy of scale that comes with very large numbers of people co-operating. Imagine a drought striking South Australia and half a million people starving to death. It would be never be allowed to happen. But we will allow it to happen, so long as the people starving to death are on the other side of an arbitrarily drawn line.

It is pure fucking madness.

[JW Frogen]

You did say it was late, so I suppose a failed attempt at irony, or recognition of it in response, let alone recognition of political reality, can be forgiven.

The "lines" you hate so are not arbitrary, they have reasons. I don't like most of them either.

There was a perfect example of this yesterday.

There was just a vote in the UN Security Council, which highlights the point of my last post (which was not that world government would end other forms of government, it was that the world does not agree on what constitutes legitimate government so can not create a world government.)

Mugabe just had a sham election. He was the only candidate, people where threatened, many killed, if they supported any other candidate, they were even threatened, many killed, if they did not turn up and vote for the only acceptable candidate to Mugabe, Mugabe.

So the US and other nations go before the Security Council and ask this election to be declared undemocratic.

Simple right?

Nope: China, Russia and South Africa veto. (South Africa currently sitting on the temporary roll of the Security Council.)

China because she does not hold free and fair elections at all, and does not want the UN advocating them, also because she supports the genocidal tyranny in Sudan in a direct oil deal with her.

Russia, because Putin is forever changing the nature of their electoral process and moving and removing power to what ever office he happens to hold at the time. (Though I concede his popularity, he does not have faith in it and has problems with term limits on power.)

So Russia does not want the UN to intervene in decisions on what constitutes legitimate power or elections, in particular as a legitimate election saw Kosovo break from Serbia, something Russia did not want.

South Africa, because she does not want outside interference in African affairs, in particular hers. They are still in the reflexive this is colonialism mode. Though they will still accept outside aid, this is no longer colonialism.

The world is simply is not one, so can not have one government or even one single purpose on many issues of injustice and poverty.

*As an aside, your hated War Criminal Bush has provided more aid, got drug companies to reduce and provide more cheap drugs to Africa, than any world leader ever.

Even eliciting praise from such unlikely Bush supporters as Bob Geldof.

[Swami Dring]

..... it was that the world does not agree on what constitutes legitimate government so can not create a world government.)

Gotcha.

The Australian eastern states cannot agree on what constitutes legimate governing with regard to the Murray River therefore we cannot form a federal government.

If you travelled back in time 100,000 years and suggested to Kenny the Neanderthal Man, living in his tribe of 50, that one day there would be 20 million people sharing the resources of 7 million square kilometres peacefully, he would have clubbed you over the head and feasted on the goo inside.

You, Froggy, are the 21st century's equivalent of Neanderthal Man. Devoid of imagination or foresight, only aware of the here and now and the fact that you got lucky and were born in an affluent part of the world.

Let's ask the 80%+ of the world's population who did not get lucky at birth if they like the idea of world government and the sharing of resources. You do believe in democracy, don't you Froggy?

[JW Frogen]

Blindly ignoring evidence is not really a sign of intelligence now is it Dring?

If you are so wise get China to pressure Sudan to stop the genocide of Animists and Christians, almost the entire southern population, or killing priests in Tibet.

Be my guest, tell them about the Murray Darling river scheme, I am sure that will impress them.

I guess the UN Secretary General must be a Neanderthal, and most diplomats in the World community, because they cannot do it.

We can not even get agreement on Mugabe. Detail how your new world government would do this without members China, South Africa and Russia saying "fuck off!"

As to asking 80% of the world’s population, the only way you can ask them is through democratic government, (how to ask 80% of North Korean what they want with the present goverment, or in Zibabwe, let alone then make the tyrant obey that will), and the only way many of these tyrannies preventing democratic self-government are going to concede it is through use of military force, which you opposed in Iraq. (Have you had a conversion moment?)

Even then you would get surprising answers, Kosovo voted to leave Serbia, but Serb Kosvars do not recognize the vote. These people cannot agree.


Here is the problem with your lot Dring, you rant and rave about injustice, talk about doing something (you don’t know what, but say the word ‘world government’) yet condemn the attempt to do something about it in Iraq.

There have been calls for a league of democracies to intervene in every tyranny possible, (Blair, McCain and other ‘Liberal interventionists) stop all this oppression you hate, it would require use of military force, which you hate.

Even then, you would find more cynical democracies like France or Russia vetoing much of it, as they attempted to do in Iraq so they could keep their oil infrastructure contracts signed by Saddam.

You want your rant and self-righteousness too.

Neither of which has brought freedom, health, or peace to anyone on this planet.

This Cindy Sheahan-Cynik brand of pacifism can do nothing but rant and self rightously rage while simultaneously talking about how, vuuury muuuuuuuch they care, but they can’t detail how they would solve anything.

At least anything in the real world.

[JW Frogen]

By the way, I am sure I have had more first hand experience, witnessing people suffering from poverty, war and tyranny than you Dring.

I don’t have to imagine it, and unlike you or Cynik I did something stop it.

[Swami Dring]

By the way, I am sure I have had more first hand experience, witnessing people suffering from poverty, war and tyranny than you Dring.

You were also sure that you lived in an English house.

And then along came Mattus with his google search and 20,000 posts suddenly disappeared.

[JW Frogen]

I often wonder how why I waiste so much time on what is one of the dumbest forums on a very dumb Internet?

Yes Dring, I never lived in London even though I was the only person on the entire forum who seemed to know the present boundaries of the city of Westminster, Mattus proved the addresss I gave existed but did not know Marylebone is not a city, it is an area in the modern city of Westminster, (though no one in Gloucester Place would claim it as that, all the bills say Westminster) so jumped up and down like a beagle in heat claiming he had proved something, then when I showed him otherwise he claimed Google Maps was an American site that probably did not know what it was talking about, then when given the Westminister city site proving my claims, he got all quiet, started popping pills in a manner that would make House look like a Morman and then started posting such profound things like, "kids suck".

I have posted so much detail about that city, (I probably know more about the art and culture of that city than many life time residents, for instance the mosaics on the National Gallery floor have a portrait of Gretta Garbo, I always thought that floor wonderful and strange), one would have to be a retarded budgerigar to not know I have lived in London.

And I never fought in the military or was in any humanitarian missions, even though I have posted so much detail one would have to be a dead budgerigar to not believe it.

I remember once you talked about driving a motorcycle real fast, you must have been lying about the only risk you ever took in your entire life.

While we treat your feathers for mites detail this wonderful “It’s A Small World After all” government you are so convinced about.