Has the US. won the war in iraq..

[JW Frogen]

Ask the Afgans who risked their lives voting, in paticular the women what this "semblance" of democracy means.

But this does bring up a point, for the Left all democracy is a "semblance" not worth risking anything for.

[mantra.]

Ask the Afgans who risked their lives voting, in paticular the women what this "semblance" of democracy means.

Yes Frogen - I know they feel more free now that the Taliban are not running the country - but the women from what I've read - still hate the place and the men with a vengeance. They are still trapped no matter who's running the place.

But this does bring up a point, for the Left all democracy is a "semblance" not worth risking anything for.

That's right the Left won't take any risks - it's only the righteous right with their battle scars and might is right mentality that bring peace and democracy to the planet. How many deaths have our ultruistic wars to bring democracy to the ME created?

It's been worth it of course. After years of terror - these oppressed people are finally leading the lives they always dreamed of.

[Jovial Monk]

Oh get off it Frogen. The Taliban are winning. The distraction that is the brain damaged Bush's going one better than Daddy--i.e. Iraq--took resources out the Afghanistan theatre and now there are not enought troops there to hold the Taliban back. they are winning. Fucks sake, you are not even safe in daylight in Kabul!

The women would quite cheerfully kill all the men there.

[xbz]

Nobody wins wars there are only degrees of loss. The sooner Guantanamo Bay is closed the sooner a particularly vile part of history will come to an end.

On a totally unrelated topic a quote from Walt Whitman: the real war will never get in the books and a quote from Robert Byrd: this war is not necessary - We are truly sleepwalking through history and Bertrand Russell: War does not determine who is right only who is left - reminded of this quote because a few weeks ago there were 4000 people on the streets of Sydney protesting the invasion of Palestine by Israel and it barely caused a blip on the News any News what is it with Israel and the Media? Gutless wonders. Injustice is injustice whoever does it.

[JW Frogen]

Oh get off it Frogen. The Taliban are winning. The distraction that is the brain damaged Bush's going one better than Daddy--i.e. Iraq--took resources out the Afghanistan theatre and now there are not enought troops there to hold the Taliban back. they are winning. Fucks sake, you are not even safe in daylight in Kabul!

The women would quite cheerfully kill all the men there.

You are on the right forum; this is the same self-indulgent despair that characterized most of PA through all the Iraq war. The quorum of this forum would have surrendered to people who randomly kill, mostly Iraqi civilians, bomb markets and mosques but could not fight US forces at even the battalion level and inflicted historically low death rates on US forces.

Thank God the forum had no say in it.

The Talaban are even less of a military threat than the Iraqi insurgents were, concentrating on random violence against civilians and hit and run against collation forces inflicting even fewer casualties than the Iraqi insurgents.

The real problem with Iraq is not military, we could sustain this fight, keeping them running and ducking in the eastern part of the country for decades, they can not take the country or even control territory where we make concerted clear and hold efforts (the reason Obama is going to double the number of US troops), the problem is unlike Iraq Afghanistan had no, has no economy. It has no history of a modern economy or of any sort of political unity long term.

I am with Christopher Hitchens on this, it may not be possible to build a united state there, though it is certainly possible to expand the authority of Kabul and most, especially women are much better off in most of Afghanistan already, but that we may have to keep the Talaban fighting in the east for decades. Certainly preferable to them controlling the entire state and their brutality will probably see much of the areas they do control turn on them as in this case of parts of East Pakistan where they control territory unopposed by NATO ground forces.


http://www.weeklystandard.com/Weblogs/T ... .asp#10261

“The Pakhtun who experience the full range of Talibanisation, day and and day out, know that Taliban atrocities are not going to end with a dialogue. The Taliban have an agenda of a savage social order to be imposed on the people. The Pakhtun are not ready for that and this is the reason why they are bearing the brunt of the Taliban savagery. Hatred against the Taliban in the Pakhtun areas is at an all-time high and so is disappointment, even resentment, about the Pakistani army for its failure to stop the Taliban.”

[Jovial Monk]

The Taliban are total arseholes who kill little girls because they dared go to school!

Glad Obama is sending more military there. We could probably do the same but even more important would be for Rudd to let our regular troops take part in the fight, ATM only our SAS experience conduct operations.

I am not saying the Taliban are winning and holding ground, but they can conduct terror operations over increasingly huge parts of the country.

Iraq was a distraction and a distraction furthermore that has seen Iran increase its influence with the Iraqi shiites. I never doubted they would 'win' the war--with their air power no conventional force smaller than the Chinese or Russian forces can take them on. When the CoW leave iraq the Sunnies will, I predict, grab control of Iraq again.

[JW Frogen]

Courtsey of Uncanny's site:

"20,000 marines spotted moving into Afghanistan. That's change we can besiege in"

http://www.fark.com/politics/