Death of Neo-Liberalism

[Jovial Monk]

Are we in recession? Probably heading into one but which two quarters had negative growth? Rudd & Swan etc are doing a fantastic job so far with the economy.

The sooner the FTA with America is made null and void the better! Vaile was a boy sent to do a man's job in the FTA negotiations but the yanks do not play fair.

Growth in protectionism is a very bad sign.

[JW Frogen]

Actually, it was Howard that secured the PBS exemption, Labor was arguing he would not but he did. Howard also got exemptions for our sugar industry and wheat. (Bush personally intervened with the US trade rep and told him to give Howard what he wants in gratitude for Iraq and Afghanistan.)

The main thing the agreement insured was a 97 per cent reduction on tariffs for manufactured goods that we sell to the United States.

But here is where the Left always gets confused, they think such trade agreements are guaranteed outcome; they forget one has to make or produce something the market wants to buy.

A nation can have all the free trade access in the world but if it does not know how to make or produce antying the world wants it will still run trade deficits.

Cutting access to those markets is not a solution to an inability to produce anything of value.

[Jovial Monk]

What world do you live in, JW?

Sugar was excluded from the FTA.

Sure, Howard got the PBS excemption--he was the fucking PM! BUT it was Latham pushed him! Howard was fucking LIVID about it!

And your analysis of 'teh left' [spelling nazi: deliberate misspelling ] gave me a nice little laugh. Apart from a few Greens politics is to the right of centre these days As I keep pointing out, the ALP now is to the RIGH of where Bob Menzies was.

[JW Frogen]

What world do you live in, JW?

Sugar was excluded from the FTA..

Yes, that is what I just said.

It was at Australia's insistence, the US wanted suger to be included as Australia's suger industry can not compete with the US.

Labor jumped up and down that Howard would sell out the PBS, he did not. You can claim this is because Labor jumped up and down, but the fact is howard did not allow the PBS to be subject to the agreement.

Stating otherise is so partisan it becomes idiocy, might as well claim the new round of Rudd tax cuts are due soley to Turnball jumping up and down calling for tax cuts.

[Jovial Monk]

Listen sunshine, I heard the Parliamentary debates on the FTA

It was because of Latham that the PBA was exluded!

The sugar was exempted because the US sugar lobby insisted. Same with dairy, and beef can be sold to the US under the FTA in eighteen fucking years time!

Tear up the FTA!

[skippy]

My only hope is that Rudd means what he said, the greed of the past has stuffed the present and maybe the future ,its time to live within our means as a country and as individuals.
The best run countries in the world are demorcratic socialists where social issues come before the greed of the big end of town, look at what the greed of conservative neo capitalism has bought us, THE BIGGEST ECONOMIC CRISIS OF OUR LIFE TIME, and what does Turnbull say?
" Oh just let it work itself out" typical, he is one of the problems, merchant banker et al, the Libs are better off with Nelson as leader, at least he had an honourable job as a Union boss before he joined parliment.

[JW Frogen]

Listen sunshine, I heard the Parliamentary debates on the FTA

It was because of Latham that the PBA was exluded!

The sugar was exempted because the US sugar lobby insisted. Same with dairy, and beef can be sold to the US under the FTA in eighteen fucking years time!

Tear up the FTA!

Actually I went off memory but I have to admit after checking it you are right about sugar.

Still, I cannot find anything that states Howard was ready to give up the PBS and political pressure from Latham forced him into another position.

And I still see no valid argument where abolishing a trade agreement with the US thus excluding us from our second largest market, or at least putting back up tariff costs to that market in a trade war would help us in an economic downturn.

Ever heard of Smoot Hartley.

How about we concentrate on making or producing things the world wants to buy?

[mantra.]

How about we concentrate on making or producing things the world wants to buy?

Over the last decade much of our manufacturing has headed off to Asia. With the downturn in their economy - perhaps we can expect some of our industries to return. Under Rudd's encouragement - hopefully - we will one day again end up producing all of our needs and developing more lucrative exports - not just digging up Australia and sending it overseas so foreigners can produce goods to sell back to us.

Still, I cannot find anything that states Howard was ready to give up the PBS and political pressure from Latham forced him into another position.

There are a lot of documents on the net we can no longer access unfortunately. This censorship began under the coalition and will probably continue under Labor, but at the time there was a lot of pressure on Howard to exclude part of the PBS from the FTA, not only from Latham who did most of the pushing, but even Howard's own party. The numbers were against him.

[Jovial Monk]

I would have to do a lot of digging. OpenAustralia has Hansard indexed.

I do remember Latham absolutely whitehot against allowing drug co's to lodge patents on a drug in one country as the patent on the same drug expires in another--'greening patents' I think that was called--I too am going from memory.

As opposition leader Latham got more done than some PMs; ended the outrageously generous Parliamentary super, protected the PBA and a couple more things.

[JW Frogen]

Warning in the irresponsibility of oppostion about something that your opponents never proposed is not unknown in politics.

As to the large question here, how will Australia be helped by exclusion from a market of 300 million of the biggest spenders on Earth?