Global Warming

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IQS.RLOW
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Re: Global Warming

Post by IQS.RLOW » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:00 am

I provide this just to show I don't just read the alarmists views. I still think this is a real issue and risk to the world and humanity.
The reason why you think this is a real issue and risk to the world and humanity is simply a belief. The facts dont match the hypothesis.

You are like the 2012 doomsayer cults taking cues from the Mayan calendars trying to predict the end of the world and when it doesn't come, you say well, its still coming- we must have misinterpreted some of those hieroglyphics we found on the cave wall, but its definitely the end of the world. REPENT NOW EVIL CARBON SINNERS, IT IS WRITTEN!!!

You gots religion, boy.
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Super Nova » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:12 am

I have to admit I am struggling to find any recent data or scientific article that support my view (religion) at the moment.

It has gone quite. Once the models have been revised in the next months let's see what they say.

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The climate gods will deliver their influence. Adaption is a poor option.

Tho shall repent soon or forever feel the wraith of a warm planet.
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Super Nova » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:47 am

The deniers appear to have a head in the sand view of the short term prediction problems with the models from 10 years ago.

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However I have just gone to the IPPC site here in the draft next report "Long-term Climate Change: Projections, Commitments and Irreversibility" here: http://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg1/#.Uvt_To2POM8

8 degrees C appears like a major issue for the planet... don't you think. However you will not be around so there is no need to worry..
20 • Continuing greenhouse gas emissions beyond 2100 as in the RCP8.5 extension induces a total 21 radiative forcing above 12 W m–2 by 2300 that would lead to a warming of 8.7°C (range 5.0–11.6) by 2300 (relative to 1986–2005). Continuously reducing emissions beyond 2100, inducing a total 23 radiative forcing below 2 W m–2 by 2300 as in the RCP2.6 extension would reduce the warming to 0.6°C (range 0.3–1.0) by 2300. 25 26

• If radiative forcing were stabilized, the fraction of realized warming at that point would be between 27 40 and 90% of the total equilibrium warming. It is strongly dependent on the history of the forcing. 28 Equilibrium would be reached only after centuries to millennia. 29 30

• The persistence of warming is substantially longer than the lifetime of anthropogenic greenhouse 31 gases themselves, as a result of non-linear absorption effects as well as the slow heat transfer into 32 and out of the ocean. In much the same way as the warming to a rapid increase of forcing is delayed, 33 the cooling after a decrease of radiative forcing is also delayed. 34 35

• For high climate sensitivities, and in particular if sulfate aerosol emissions are eliminated at the same 36 time as greenhouse gas emissions, the commitment from past emission can be strongly positive, and 37 is a superposition of a fast response to reduced aerosols emissions and a slow response to reduced 38 CO2. 39 40

• Processes related to vegetation change, changes in the ice sheets, deep ocean warming and 41 associated sea level rise and potential feedbacks linking for example ocean and the ice sheets have 42 their own intrinsic long timescales. Those may result in significant changes hundreds to thousands of 43 years after global temperature is stabilized. 44 45

• Analysis of a range of multi-gas emission pathways from integrated assessment models shows that 46 pathways that likely limit warming below 2°C (above pre-industrial) by 2100 consist of emissions of 47 about 31–46 GtCO2eq yr–1 and 17–23 GtCO2eq yr–1 by 2020 and 2050, respectively. Median 2010 48 emissions of all models are 48 GtCO2eq yr–1. In cumulative terms, the 2°C temperature target 49 implies cumulative carbon emissions by 2100 of about 1000–1300 GtC in the set of scenarios 50 considered, of which about 520 GtC were emitted by 2011.
The long term impacts and the iriversability is a concern don't you think?
54 • For scenarios driven by carbon dioxide alone, global average temperature is projected to remain 55 approximately constant for many centuries following a complete cessation of emissions. Thus a large 56 fraction of climate change is largely irreversible on human time scales, except if net anthropogenic 57

GHGs emissions were strongly negative over a sustained period. The positive commitment from 1 CO2 may be enhanced by the effect of an abrupt cessation of aerosol emissions, which will cause 2 warming. By contrast cessation of emission of short-lived greenhouse gases will contribute a 3 cooling.
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Super Nova » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:14 am

however in the "Near-term Climate Change: Projections and Predictability" draft report I see that they predict 0.4 to 1.0 degrees C for 2035. Now that is much less than the earlier and as you say Climate Change doomsayers. So while we expect an increase.... it is not as bad as first forecast......
hate that :-)

However if this is the end published report I can see why the sceptics are shouting and crying foul.

Climate change is real. The impact is long lasting if we do SFA. It is not as bad in the near term. Bloody major in the long term, long lasting. But hell, that's not our problem, let's leave it for future generations to sort.
The global mean surface air temperature anomaly for the period 2016–2035 relative to the reference 21 period of 1986–2005, will likely be in the range 0.4–1.0°C (medium confidence). This conclusion 22 presumes that there are no major volcanic eruptions before or during 2016–2035 and no significant long term 23 changes in total solar irradiance, but takes into account the RCP and SRES emissions scenarios, and also 24 medium evidence that the CMIP5 models that warm most rapidly may be inconsistent with observations. It is 25 consistent with the AR4 Summary for Policymakers statement that ‘For the next few decades a warming of 26 about 0.2°C per decade is projected for a range of SRES emission scenarios’. It is more likely than not that 27 that actual warming will be closer to the lower bound of 0.4°C than the upper bound of 1.0°C (medium 28 confidence). [11.3.6.3; Figure 11.33]
Here: http://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg1/#.Uvt_To2POM8

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Re: Global Warming

Post by Super Nova » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:19 am

And just for a laugh ..... re your earlier point.


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Re: Global Warming

Post by Rorschach » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:18 am

However in the long run the models will prove to be correct, in the short term that are high inaccurate to predict short term variations of a chaotic system like climate and climate change.
Oh yes one day the models may just get it right and by then the parameters will have changed so as to be unrecognisable to the ones they use today and maybe just maybe they'll be agreeing with those of us who are not alarmists.
Even Englund says the models are wrong.
They keep moving the goalposts in an effort to excuse their errors and doggedly refuse to dump their dogma and start again.
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Super Nova » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:53 pm

They have improved their modelling as predicted.

This is complex and this is an extract from the overview of the upcoming IPPC report.

To me it is clear that the shorter term effects are not as large as previously predicted. The longer term effect is huge. It appears we have time to do something without taxing the crap out of us but if we do nothing than things will be bad for future generations.

FAQ 1.1 | If Understanding of the Climate System Has Increased, Why Hasn’t the Range of Temperature Projections Been Reduced?

http://www.climatechange2013.org/images ... _FINAL.pdf

The models used to calculate the IPCC’s temperature projections agree on the direction of future global change, but the projected size of those changes cannot be precisely predicted. Future greenhouse gas (GHG) emission rates could take any one of many possible trajectories, and some underlying physical processes are not yet completely understood, making them difficult to model. Those uncertainties, combined with natural year-to-year climate variability, produce an ‘uncertainty range’ in temperature projections. The uncertainty range around projected GHG and aerosol precursor emissions (which depend on projections of future social and economic conditions) cannot be materially reduced. Nevertheless, improved understanding and climate models—along with observational constraints—may reduce the uncertainty range around some factors that influence the climate’s response to those emission changes. The complexity of the climate system, however, makes this a slow process. (FAQ1.1, Figure 1) Climate science has made many important advances since the last IPCC assessment report, thanks to improvements in measurements and data analysis in the cryosphere, atmosphere, land, biosphere and ocean systems. Scientists also have better understanding and tools to model the role of clouds, sea ice, aerosols, small-scale ocean mixing, the carbon cycle and other processes. More observations mean that models can now be evaluated more thoroughly, and projections can be better constrained. For example, as models and observational analysis have improved, projections of sea level rise have become more accurate, balancing the current sea level rise budget. Despite these advances, there is still a range in plausible projections for future global and regional climate— what scientists call an ‘uncertainty range’. These uncertainty ranges are specific to the variable being considered (precipitation vs. temperature, for instance) and the spatial and temporal extent (such as regional vs. global averages). Uncertainties in climate projections arise from natural variability and uncertainty around the rate of future emissions and the climate’s response to them. They can also occur because representations of some known processes are as yet unrefined, and because some processes are not included in the models. There are fundamental limits to just how precisely annual temperatures can be projected, because of the chaotic nature of the climate system. Furthermore, decadal-scale projections are sensitive to prevailing conditions—such as the temperature of the deep ocean—that are less well known. Some natural variability over decades arises from interactions between the ocean, atmosphere, land, biosphere and cryosphere, and is also linked to phenomena such as the El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) and the North Atlantic Oscillation (see Box 2.5 for details on patterns and indices of climate variability). Volcanic eruptions and variations in the sun’s output also contribute to natural variability, although they are externally forced and explainable. This natural variability can be viewed as part of the ‘noise’ in the climate record, which provides the backdrop against which the ‘signal’ of anthropogenic climate change is detected. Natural variability has a greater influence on uncertainty at regional and local scales than it does over continental or global scales. It is inherent in the Earth system, and more knowledge will not eliminate the uncertainties it brings. However, some progress is possible—particularly for projections up to a few years ahead—which exploit advances in knowledge of, for instance, the cryosphere or ocean state and processes. This is an area of active research. When climate variables are averaged over decadal timescales or longer, the relative importance of internal variability diminishes, making the long-term signals more evident (FAQ1.1, Figure 1). This long-term perspective is consistent with a common definition of climate as an average over 30 years. A second source of uncertainty stems from the many possible trajectories that future emission rates of GHGs and aerosol precursors might take, and from future trends in land use. Nevertheless, climate projections rely on input from these variables. So to obtain these estimates, scientists consider a number of alternative scenarios for future human society, in terms of population, economic and technological change, and political choices. They then estimate the likely emissions under each scenario. The IPCC informs policymaking, therefore climate projections for different emissions scenarios can be useful as they show the possible climatic consequences of different policy choices. These scenarios are intended to be compatible with the full range of emissions scenarios described in the current scientific literature, with or without climate policy. As such, they are designed to sample uncertainty in future scenarios. (continued on next page)
1
Introduction Chapter 1
141
FAQ 1.1 (continued)
Projections for the next few years and decades are sensitive to emissions of short-lived compounds such as aerosols and methane. More distant projections, however, are more sensitive to alternative scenarios around long-lived GHG emissions. These scenario-dependent uncertainties will not be reduced by improvements in climate science, and will become the dominant uncertainty in projections over longer timescales (e.g., 2100) (FAQ 1.1, Figure 1). The final contribution to the uncertainty range comes from our imperfect knowledge of how the climate will respond to future anthropogenic emissions and land use change. Scientists principally use computer-based global climate models to estimate this response. A few dozen global climate models have been developed by different groups of scientists around the world. All models are built on the same physical principles, but some approximations are needed because the climate system is so complex. Different groups choose slightly different approximations to represent specific processes in the atmosphere, such as clouds. These choices produce differences in climate projections from different models. This contribution to the uncertainty range is described as ‘response uncertainty’ or ‘model uncertainty’. The complexity of the Earth system means that future climate could follow many different scenarios, yet still be consistent with current understanding and models. As observational records lengthen and models improve, researchers should be able, within the limitations of the range of natural variability, to narrow that range in probable temperature in the next few decades (FAQ 1.1, Figure 1). It is also possible to use information about the current state of the oceans and cryosphere to produce better projections up to a few years ahead. As science improves, new geophysical processes can be added to climate models, and representations of those already included can be improved. These developments can appear to increase model-derived estimates of climate response uncertainty, but such increases merely reflect the quantification of previously unmeasured sources of uncertainty (FAQ1.1, Figure 1). As more and more important processes are added, the influence of unquantified processes lessens, and there can be more confidence in the projections.
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Re: Global Warming

Post by IQS.RLOW » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:36 pm

So basically all you have is "yes, we got it wrong but that was only the short term stuff. We have it right on the long term stuff. Trust us."

:roll:

It's amazing what "getting faith" will do for those that want to be lead.
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Rorschach » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:41 pm

Image Super Nova
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DaS Energy

Re: Global Warming

Post by DaS Energy » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:54 pm

Re: Global Warming Unread postby LucasTheInnkeeper » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:37 pm
"Global warming debunked:

"NASA report verifies carbon dioxide actually cools atmosphere"

Don't lie, it saize nothing of the sort!

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