Has the US. won the war in iraq..

[crazychemist]

I have already made my mind up about this one but interested in other opinions.

Has the US. won the war in iraq.

The question came about while i was watching a debate on bbcworld.. called intelligence^2..arguing if bush was the worst president in US history, and the pro-neo-conservative team argued that he wasnt and also argued that they had won the war..

[JW Frogen]

Yes.

[Jovial Monk]

When the US leaves the Sunni contingemt, armed by the US, will take over and install a new strongman.

So, no the war in Iraq has not been won.

[freediver]

Thery won the war in a few days. The occupation on the other hand was a different matter. By conventional standards, it would have lasted about a week then they would have pulled out. Instead, they have set up a fledgling democracy, which will be very impressive if it works. What's happening there now is more of a civil war. Most of the victims on 'our' side are actually locals trying to set up the new state, especially the new police force.

[Auzgurl]

Thery won the war in a few days. The occupation on the other hand was a different matter. By conventional standards, it would have lasted about a week then they would have pulled out. Instead, they have set up a fledgling democracy, which will be very impressive if it works. What's happening there now is more of a civil war. Most of the victims on 'our' side are actually locals trying to set up the new state.

I agree Fd

And my question went to the points raised above ,..what exactly do you mean by "won"..?

[freediver]

Welcome to Political Animal, crazy chemist.

[boxy]

Did the US win?

The war part? Yes.

They kick serious arse, hardware vs. hardware.

Was it lives/money/respect well spent? No.

[mantra.]

The only win - if you can call it that - was getting rid of Saddam. In all other respects we have lost the war - not only for the people of Iraq, but for us. Have we forgotten it was an illegal invasion and that the US once supported Saddam?

This from the architect of the "shock and awe" campaign that helped bring down Hussein's regime - Harlan Ullman.

"Saddam is gone," Ullman said. "I don't, quite frankly, see any other benefits."

Since the March 19, 2003, invasion, tens or even hundreds of thousands Iraqis have been killed, by some estimates, in bombings, firefights and sectarian execution-style murders. Two million people have fled the country of about 22 million, according to a recent United Nations report, and the U.N. migration agency expects a million more to flee this year. Infrastructure in most of the country is in a shambles, oil production is lower than before the war, and electricity is sporadic. The streets of Baghdad, once flanked with palm trees and neatly pruned hedges, are laden with frequent roadside bombs, rutted by explosions and steeped in stagnant raw sewage.

Had Hussein remained in power, "a very horrible dictatorship would be continuing to reign in that country," said Diamond, now an expert on democracy-building at the Hoover Institution. "Of course, there are people that are better off in Iraq now than they were before. The Shiites, collectively, have an opportunity for power, for resources, for dignity as a group that they didn't have before.

"They also have something of an equal chance to participate in the misery of a destroyed national order. A somewhat leveled opportunity to be kidnapped, to be forced into exile, to have their daughter abducted or raped, to have their father murdered, families killed in the suicide bombings."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... O934H1.DTL

[crazychemist]

As I mentioned in the original thread.. I am sorry, I should have clarified what I meant is the whole situation, not just the war that lasted for a short period of time against an army that has been through two wars and 10 years of economic sanctions.. No thats not what I meant.

What I mean is.. Have they successfully accomplished what there spin doctors are saying. By bringing democracy and rady rady rar..

My opinion they failed miserably, and gave Iran a golden opportunity to be the regional power.. because they know that they cannot be touched.. as for iraq. Well it is a mess, and god knows whats going to happen when they pull out. Corruption is strife, institutions are crippled, and you have one the largest migration of modern history, something like 6million or so been displaced..

and they get a medal of serving democracy..

peace

[Outlaw Yogi]

U$A hasn't won a war in over 60 years, and now like their old nemisis USSR, they're economically imploding while still trying to blow the budget on more $#!+ for more wars.

Who needs suicide bombers when you've got reverse engineered robot bombers?

Military Automated killer robots
http://www.95news.com/military-automated-killer-robots/

PARIS (AFP) — Increasingly autonomous, gun-totting robots developed for warfare could easily fall into the hands of terrorists and may one day unleash a robot arms race, a top expert on artificial intelligence told AFP.

“They pose a threat to humanity,” said University of Sheffield professor Noel Sharkey ahead of a keynote address Wednesday before Britain’s Royal United Services Institute.