Men who have killed in war claim

[JW Frogen]

The war shooter killer game market is enormous and an outer recruitment tool, even if inadvertently. Holy war type killing such as jihad is also propaganda fuelled.

I saw a documentary on US military training and they use war killing games to train their marines. All war is fuelled on propaganda - otherwise they wouldn't get enough troops regardless of what side they're fighting on.

Oh they would get volunteers.

First, because Americans have borne the brunt of world democratic security for over a half century there is still reverence for the US military. Indeed with the finance system collapsing and political institutions at loggerheads, the US military constantly ranks the highest respected institution in the US in poll after poll.

Also the US military pays very good salaries and beinfits once one reaches the NCO level, offers extrodinary Uni educational benefits (US military has higher education levels than the general population at large; year 12 being required even to join, and most military have higher levels of Uni education than the civilian population), travel opportunities and occupational training. (My resume is five pages long! That is the short version.)

Another point, most soldiers in an average tour never kill or go to war at all. They train for it, perform peace keeping, humanitarian missions, disaster relief, ect.

Without the military democratic civilization would collapse.

Most military know that, and it gives one a sense of purpose and fulfillment many civilians will never know.

[Rainbow Moonlight]

Meaning?

Meaning just as young girls are often encouraged to abort by those around them, young men are encouraged to join armies and kill. I think the encouragers bear large fault in both cases. And the morality of the killing is a grey area, as with abortion. In general, killing is wrong. Sometimes it may be more justified than others.

[JW Frogen]

Meaning?

Meaning just as young girls are often encouraged to abort by those around them, young men are encouraged to join armies and kill. I think the encouragers bear large fault in both cases. And the morality of the killing is a grey area, as with abortion. In general, killing is wrong. Sometimes it may be more justified than others.

Meaning, as when I helped Puerto Ricans after Hurricane Hugo get fresh water and food, when we got their electricity back up. When we got their water running. Meaning as they invited us into their homes in gratitude.

Meaning when we stopped a lava flow from destroying the Sicilian down of Zafferana from the wrath of Mt. Etnea. When we provided the residents with evacuation aid and supplies.

Meaning as when I arrived in Kuwait City and the streets were thronged with long suffering Kuwaitis who had been brutalized by a Iraqi occupation, when we gave them food and water because the Iraqi troops and destroyed most of the infrastructure on their retreat.

Meaning when we helped to get their electricity going, their water flowing.

Meaning when the Kuwaiti family who had a son “disappeared” by Iraqi troops asked me to spread his picture around Kuwait City, to try to find out what happened to him, and when I did, when I really tried but failed, still found them grateful (a gratitude I still can not fathom given what they had suffered), meaning when they showed their appriciation by giving me a family Koran.

Meaning when the Kuwatis had realised the world would not sell them out.


Meaning when I was sent to Bosnia and was tasked with organizing humanitarian aid, to all sides in that civil war. When I literally helped to save tens of thousands of lives.

And countless smaller assignments, like when we built a library in an orphanage in Sicily, or when we went on 12 hour shifts to send food and aid supplies to Somalia from Sicily during the great famine there.

Meaning when you work with idealistic people willing to lay their life on a cause greater than their own ego.

I could go on. Most career military people can.

[mantra.]

Meaning when you work with idealistic people willing to lay their life on a cause greater than their own ego.

I could go on. Most career military people can.

Yes obviously - but many believe you and your peers were misled by your country's propaganda. When you talk about your good deeds to those whose country you invaded - does it also justify your slaughter of all those innocent woman and children under the guise of "the ideology of US democracy"? It sounds like you "helped" and killed, "helped" and killed because you mindlessly believed whatever you were told.

The ex military (militia) men on this forum believe it's OK to murder someone as long as it's your job and you do something nice as well to counter balance it.

[JW Frogen]

Yes obviously - but many believe you and your peers were misled by your country's propaganda. When you talk about your good deeds to those whose country you invaded - does it also justify your slaughter of all those innocent woman and children under the guise of "the ideology of US democracy"?.

What ex military men on this forum? As far as I know I am the only one.

You have to define what you are talking about, both on the subject of war and abortion it would sadly seem.

When and where?

Let me help you.

Iraq.

It is clear to any informed person not only did the Bush administration believe Iraq had WMD, but so did almost every other intel agency in the world, wether they supported the war or not.

And Bush was clear about his democratic aspirations from the start, well before the start.

Before the start the Kurds and Shia supported liberation, Sistiani, the majority Shia cleric still does, and Sadar, the minority did at the time.

Sunnis in the Iraqi National Congress did as well.

That was by far most of the country.

Most Iraqis have been killed by the insurgency. Most US troops post topple of Saddam have been risking their lives to rebuild and protect them.

[mantra.]

What ex military men on this forum? As far as I know I am the only one.

Yes that's right.

You have to define what you are talking about, both on the subject of war and abortion it would sadly seem.

I already have.

When and where?

It is clear to any informed person not only did the Bush administration believe Iraq had WMD, but so did almost every other intel agency in the world, wether they supported the war or not.

No that's not quite right. There were doubts expressed from the British and Australian intelligence agencies that some of the intelligence was only based on rumours.

Even the most intelligent man in the US had this to say and his sentiments echoed many others.

AMERICA’s elder statesman of finance, Alan Greenspan, has shaken the White House by declaring that the prime motive for the war in Iraq was oil.

In his long-awaited memoir, to be published tomorrow, Greenspan, a Republican whose 18-year tenure as head of the US Federal Reserve was widely admired, will also deliver a stinging critique of President George W Bush’s economic policies.

However, it is his view on the motive for the 2003 Iraq invasion that is likely to provoke the most controversy. “I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil,” he says.

Greenspan, 81, is understood to believe that Saddam Hussein posed a threat to the security of oil supplies in the Middle East.

Britain and America have always insisted the war had nothing to do with oil. Bush said the aim was to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction and end Saddam’s support for terrorism.

When Colin Powell announced to the world there were WMD's in Iraq - he was lying and he knew it and that's why he quit eventually. He had a conscience. There were plans to invade Iraq years beforehand and it had nothing to do with WMD's.

And Bush was clear about his democratic aspirations from the start, well before the start.

Yes he sure was - he had to finish off what Daddy started and once Iraq changed to the euro - it was just too great a threat to the US economy to let it pass. What's the first thing the yanks did when they invaded Iraq? Take $23 billion - the total of Iraq's whole economy and send it to the Federal Reserve to be exchanged for US dollars. Some of it was returned later for reconstruction purposes - but many of these bundles of US dollars ended up being used as footballs or ensuring scam artists became multi-millionaires overnight. Oh & Haliburton got a massive chunk as well.

Most Iraqis have been killed by the insurgency.

Yes far more than Saddam could have managed. A job well done by the USA.

Most US troops post topple of Saddam have been risking their lives to rebuild and protect them.

Yes - because now they have to, but they want out - they've had enough. How many marines have lost their lives? How many have returned to the US with absolutely no government support to live their lives out blind, crippled, bits of their body parts missing and severe traumatic stress disorder. Many are now living in dire poverty - they've served their purpose and are no longer useful to anyone. All the sacrifices these young men and women have made to service the ideology of a corrupt administration controlled by a bunch of nasty old men. That's why the Republicans weren't returned and it will be many years before they are.

[JW Frogen]

There are always dissenting voices in every Intel agency, any agency, any place for that matter, but no overall Intel assessment stated Iraqi did not have WMD, not even the UN’s.

Even countries that opposed the war stated Iraq probably had them but there were different ways to deal with it, such as Germany and Russia.

No person conversant with real history will state that the Bush Administration lied; they will state they were wrong. (Thought the Kay Report, from the Iraqi Survey group, the definitive study that determined Iraq had no WMD determined Saddam was determined to get them again and invade Kuwait, so the subject is really semantic, not strategic.)

The Leftist need to say your ideological opponent is always lying is infantile.

Obama said the surge would not work, it has. He admits it now. Was he lying? Or was he just wrong?


As to Marines dying, soldiers die.

At least they died to end a tyranny and give Iraqis the same freedom we have (but that many on the Left do not value or would never, EVER sacrifice for), at least they died for something rather than lived for nothing.

They knew what they were doing with their lives.

Do you?

[JW Frogen]

From this remarkable man’s letters.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/feat ... rentPage=2


“Anyone who knew me before I joined knows that I am quite aware and at times sympathetic to the arguments against the war in Iraq. If you think the only way a person could bring themselves to volunteer for this war is through sheer desperation or blind obedience then consider me the exception (though there are countless like me).… Consider that there are 19 year old soldiers from the Midwest who have never touched a college campus or a protest who have done more to uphold the universal legitimacy of representative government and individual rights by placing themselves between Iraqi voting lines and homicidal religious fanatics.”

And.
“I was having a conversation with a Kurdish man in the city of Dahok (by myself and completely safe) discussing whether or not the insurgents could be viewed as "freedom fighters" or "misguided anti-capitalists." Shaking his head as I attempted to articulate what can only be described as pathetic apologetics, he cut me off and said "the difference between insurgents and American soldiers is that they get paid to take life—to murder, and you get paid to save lives." He looked at me in such a way that made me feel like he was looking through me, into all the moral insecurity that living in a free nation will instill in you. He "oversimplified" the issue, or at least that is what college professors would accuse him of doing.”

And finally a concept the peace at any price, (the price of other people) will never understand:

“One thing I have learned about myself since I've been out here is that everything I professed to you about what I want for the world and what I am willing to do to achieve it was true. …
My desire to "save the world" is really just an extension of trying to make a world fit for you.”

[Roger Mellie]

What ex military men on this forum? As far as I know I am the only one.

lol, What a frigging joke. Frogen you are a security guard in a mall and if you ever saw service in your life post the photos of some medals and commendations you bullshitter. Prove you were published. The english house debacle demands that intelligent folk (which does not include Aussie) demand a bit more than your say so.

Its rubber on the road time, you have been all over the net for years doing Hemmingway impressions. Time to put up. You accused Scorpion of being a fake soldier, he has posted proof he served. Where is yours?

[Postul8]

what does it matter whether Frogen or anyone else claims anything on an internet forum. you're not supposed to engage in realities here, on pain of exclusion, so I fail to understand why anyone has to prove anything in relation to what they have, or claim to have done in their real lives outside of the ether.

Me? I was on the ground at Milne Bay in '42 fightin' Japs. Wanna see my medals?