Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At

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mantra.

Re: Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At

Post by mantra. » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:24 pm

I can say it is killing to abort a life and killing to expose a newborn baby (as the Greeks practiced), both are killing, but are both held of equal moral or legal value?
Yes - by most women. There are few women who use abortion as a contraceptive and those who believe they have no other alternative in life but to have an abortion often suffer severe guilt and self loathing from undergoing this procedure.

Perhaps there would be less abortions - if more males accepted responsibility for their actions. Many young girls find themselves deserted by the boy who professed to care for her and the task of bringing a child up alone is too daunting, particularly if there is no family support. There are many reasons girls/women have abortions and don't just assume they regard it as a quick trip to the dentist.

How about imprisonment for males who shirk their responsibilities and leave young girls in the lurch with no support for the prospective child? How about more social services being made available to those girls who want to keep their baby but are too scared to do it on their own?

Or better still - how about those males who go around impregnating women more than once without offering emotional or financial support - get mandatory castration. That would put a stop to unwanted pregnancies and abortions. It takes two to tango.

Roger Mellie

Re: Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At

Post by Roger Mellie » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:34 pm

JW Frogen wrote:
Roger Mellie wrote: . His point boiled down is that its ok to kill so long as you are man enough to admit it.
An honest and open, just or moral determination of when it is right to kill can only be made however if one admits life is being killed and not to lie as a matter of personal and political convenience that it was not really a life at all.
Yes, as you say, avoid the question by saying it was not really a life at all. To which your rebuttal is that you need to be man enough to admit you are killing.

Which is still not much of a point or anything especially profound and a "point" that you have made to the point of tedium.

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JW Frogen
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Re: Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At

Post by JW Frogen » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:39 pm

Then any intelligent person would ask (Roger you may be excused from the question, besides you have mindless stalking to do) why do so many people have trouble understanding the premise (either on this thread or more importantly writ large in the pro choice movement) and just admitting it is a life?

Abortion is killing a life.

Auzgurl

Re: Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At

Post by Auzgurl » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:42 pm

JW Frogen wrote:Conception because they are unable to admit to themselves the gravity of the act they chose?

Because they want to kill with conscience?

I do not think any woman who simply cannot front up and let the new life in them should be forced to act on biological logic. If they can not see through what they began and it will damage their life then there is some ethical argument for mental self preservation.

But abortion as birth control? A notion that defines life to a definition of personal, cynical convenience?


Still, the pro choice people want an arbitrary definition of when life begins, which means when ever we can make it legal to kill it.

So that there is no biological definition, but a definition based on when we can make ourselves feel better about the grave choice of killing.

This kills any honesty, dignity or justice in their argument.

Some times killing is necessary, but if you have not the honesty or gravity of soul to admit you are killing, if you need to redefine life and pretend you are not killing, what really, is the value of your human life?

Even more strange, this seems to be even a stronger instinct of Leftist, pacifist women.

They will define away the nature of the life within them but protest the killing of life they are not viscerally a part of.

Revealing the egocentric (and some would argue, homicidal-hypocritical) nature of this form of social politics.
I'm sorry Frogen, but you being highly ignorant and offensive to the plight some women/girl/childs will find themselves in, from the left or the right, those who are raped,abandoned etc..., but then you are a right bleater so why does that surprise, me...?

I dont believe I made any such judgements about you going to war and indiscriminately killing people as part of your patriotic duty..I believe tried to understand and accept that there are just some decisions in life we make for many reasons, unknown to those looking on from the sidelines and making moral judgements.

Walk a mile in any womans/girls/childs shoes who finds herself in this place and just thank god you dont ever have to choose..

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JW Frogen
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Re: Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At

Post by JW Frogen » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:49 pm

This is an important point Auzgirl, you sort of highlight why I repeat the point. Mantra too.

My point is not condemnation of those who kill with abortion (though there are some women who do treat it casually, as birth control, that I would condemn) but rather an insistence that the gravity of the decision not be made less by pretending it is not killing.

Killing always demands ethical or moral assessment, killing an unborn life would by definition demand such thought from the society as a whole if it is to be made legal, not just women or women who have had abortions, just as killing in war does.

The demand that this form of killing only be contemplated or discussed by those who do such killing betrays a lack of conviction in the justice of such killing.

As I have said many times on this thread I am not for abolishing abortion as it currently stands, there is such a thing as justifiable killing. Whether than be to relieve a women who could not, would not be a fit mother or to liberate a country and remove tyranny.

But the emotive “how dare you make me call it killing” response that automatically comes from some women reveals they have not really; seriously contemplated just what it is they support.

They want their abortion and easy conscience to.

Killing should never be done with an easy conscience.

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JW Frogen
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Re: Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At

Post by JW Frogen » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:03 pm

If any woman leaves an abortion clinic in the belief she has not just killed (even if justified) a life then she has killed more than that unborn life, she has killed an essential part of her own humanity.

Auzgurl

Re: Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At

Post by Auzgurl » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:36 pm

Frogen-
But the emotive “how dare you make me call it killing” response that automatically comes from some women reveals they have not really; seriously contemplated just what it is they support.

They want their abortion and easy conscience to.
You think so?..
Another obscure sweeping generalisation thereby making you arguement lack credibility..

I get a bit impatient with men who wade into this topic and pretend they "understand" and even more impatient with men who are arrogant enough to think they have the high moral ground...

You supply a single sperm .. that is the extent of any mans contribution..mostly he just fucks off and leaves these poor hapless women to fend for themsleves.. Now Im being emotive..sorry about that. Must be my weak leftist brain.

Aussie

Re: Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At

Post by Aussie » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:43 pm

Abortion is killing a life.
At what point of time in the term is 'abortion the killing of a life?'

Let's say Mrs Frogen had a one night stand and conceived although she was totally unaware of that. As is her habit, she takes the morning after pill.

Has she killed a life?

mantra.

Re: Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At

Post by mantra. » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:50 pm

You supply a single sperm .. that is the extent of any mans contribution..mostly he just fucks off and leaves these poor hapless women to fend for themsleves.. Now Im being emotive..sorry about that. Must be my weak leftist brain.
:lol: :lol:
Let's say Mrs Frogen had a one night stand and conceived although she was totally unaware of that. As is her habit, she takes the morning after pill.

Has she killed a life?
Good point Aussie. If Frogen was 16 years old and had just got a 16 y.o. first timer pregnant - would he stand by her through the pregnancy and do the right thing or encourage her to have an abortion?

Jovial Monk

Re: Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At

Post by Jovial Monk » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:20 pm

Good point Mantra! HM times is the abortion urged on by the male? I know one case where it was, he didn't want to be called on for child maintenance when he was married. This fucking hypocrite was/is Catholic!

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