Some perspective on Covid deaths.

[Bobby]

This is interesting -
the 2017 flu epidemic in Australia was worse than Covid:
Number of Covid deaths after 18 months in Australia 1,231.

But in only 12 months:
Number of Influenza deaths in 2017 Australia 1,255.

https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.ns ... nfluenza~5

And.

In 2019, 4,124 people died of flu and pneumonia.
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/healt ... Af0TTWCPQI

[Black Orchid]

Covid eradicated the flu isn't that great?

[sprintcyclist]

If Australia had the same covid death rate as US we would have 50,000 dead

[Black Orchid]

But we don't. We don't have Premiers putting the Covid sick, including prisoners, into nursing homes by the thousands, we don't have the government paying hospitals $14,000 for every Covid death they list and nor do we have a head of state allowing millions of untested and sick people swarming over our border and then busing them around and dropping them off wherever they like.

[Texan]

If Australia had the same covid death rate as US we would have 50,000 dead

You may yet when you come out of hiding.

[sprintcyclist]

But we don't. We don't have Premiers putting the Covid sick, including prisoners, into nursing homes by the thousands, we don't have the government paying hospitals $14,000 for every Covid death they list and nor do we have a head of state allowing millions of untested and sick people swarming over our border and then busing them around and dropping them off wherever they like.

I disbelieve that there is fraud concerning reporting covid deaths in US

(WLUK) -- Since the pandemic started, FOX 11 has received questions from viewers asking if hospitals are being paid for every COVID-19 death, and questions about how COVID deaths are counted.

How COVID-19 deaths are counted
Determining the cause of death is up to a coroner, medical examiner or physician.

We reached out to almost every coroner and medical examiner in Northeast Wisconsin for an interview. One of the only ones willing to speak was Calumet County’s medical examiner, Mike Klaeser.

“We try to set up a cause-and-effect kind of relationship. If they didn’t have COVID, would they be dead right now? Did COVID lead to his heart disease getting worse, or his congestive heart failure getting worse?” Klaeser said.

COVID-19 can be listed as the immediate or underlying cause of death on a certificate.

“We know there’s a chain of events: patient catches COVID, develops a COVID-related pneumonia or pneumonitis and then eventually dies of that. So the cause of death is pneumonia due to COVID-19," Klaeser said.

The Wisconsin Department of Health Services says it follows the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s guidelines for counting COVID-19 deaths.

That includes counting deaths that list COVID as both an immediate and underlying cause of death.

Bellin Health Physician Dr. Robert Mead says the state's data is accurate, and COVID being listed as an underlying cause of death doesn’t diminish its role in the death.

Read the Wisconsin Department of Health Services' FAQ about data collection
“What we’re doing on the death certificate is saying that that was an underlying cause that led to their premature death. It may have actually caused somebody to have a pneumonia that actually led to their death, but they would have not gotten the pneumonia if they didn’t have COVID," Dr. Mead said.

But just because someone has COVID-19 when they die does not mean it’s always counted in state data.

“It is possible for a person to die with COVID-19 and not have COVID-19 contribute to their death," said Dr. Ryan Westergaard, chief medical officer of the DHS Bureau of Communicable Diseases.

He gave the example of someone dying in a car accident while having COVID-19.

“Those would not be counted as COVID-related deaths if in the expert opinion of the person certifying the death, it did not contribute to the death," Westergaard said.



Do hospitals get money for every COVID-19 death?
You may have heard the claim that hospitals get money for every COVID-19 death.

"Providers can get additional reimbursement through Medicare. That was a component of the CARES Act that was passed by Congress and signed by the president as a partial offset to all the extra costs that providers are incurring," Potter said.

People also claim death numbers are being inflated so hospitals get more money. Potter says that’s not true for two reasons.

The first, Potter says that 20% add-on from the CARES Act is only for services provided, not deaths.

In actual dollar amounts, Potter says the 20% payment averages out to be around $35,000 per patient on a ventilator.

Potter says the second reason it's not true is because of checks and balances.

“If somebody knowingly alters the medical record, which would then create the bill I think is being alleged here... That would be caught through audit. And if that occurred, you could be prosecuted -- there’s huge penalties," Potter said.

“I know that there’s a certain group of people out there who seem to think that we’re taking directions from the CDC, or physicians or certain health departments or something like this to inflate the numbers which is absolutely, completely false," Klaeser said.

"There's no pressure on the physician to say COVID, we’re going to get paid more if you have COVID," Dr. Mead said.

In September, Medicare began requiring a documented positive COVID-19 test to get the add-on.

Despite any misinformation floating around, these health care workers say they just want to help patients and end this pandemic.

https://fox11online.com/news/fox-11-inv ... -19-deaths

[Bobby]

If Australia had the same covid death rate as US we would have 50,000 dead

But what if we would have had far less lockdowns?
Would we have similar numbers of cases as the flu and pneumonia?

[sprintcyclist]

If Australia had the same covid death rate as US we would have 50,000 dead

But what if we would have had far less lockdowns?
Would we have similar numbers of cases as the flu and pneumonia?

I don't know.
We also have had big advantages over almost all other countries during this period.
A remote isolated island, a dry climate, disperse population all help a lot.

[sprintcyclist]

Melbourne construction worker Nathan Chellia was on the phone to contact tracers when he collapsed at home, just one day after being diagnosed with COVID-19.

He says people involved in this week's wild protests must stop spreading the virus
"I was pretty much unconscious," Mr Chellia said.

"The Department of Health had to call an ambulance and take me to hospital."

The father of two would go on to spend the next 14 days in intensive care in Melbourne's Northern Hospital, where he could barely eat or drink.

His throat was so closed, even simply sipping water would cause him to choke.

At one point, Mr Chellia was asked by his doctors to contact his loved ones and make final arrangements in case "something happens".

He told them that if he needed to be placed on a ventilator for more than 24 hours, they should let him die.

"I had headaches, vomiting, bleeding from my mouth. I was pretty much half-dead," he said.

"And I realised then that I had made a silly mistake because I hadn't had a vaccine."


Mr Chellia had always intended to get vaccinated but had not felt there was any hurry.

Aged in his late 30s, he felt a false sense of security.

"I thought, 'COVID's not going to get me, it's going to get older people.'"

"I'd never seen any COVID patients … I thought it was just a normal flu."

Grateful to have recovered, he is now urging other Australians to get vaccinated and he wants his experience with coronavirus to act as a cautionary tale.

In particular, the construction worker says he has been frustrated and disappointed by this week's rallies in Melbourne against mandatory vaccinations for the building industry, which have involved many tradies like him.

"Stop the protests – you're spreading the virus everywhere," Mr Chellia said.

"If you get sick, it'll knock you down. Just go home and get vaccinated."


Mr Chellia worked at the Panorama construction site in Box Hill, which was listed as a tier 1 exposure site not long after his diagnosis and has since been linked to more than 150 positive cases.

He believes he contracted the virus after unthinkingly shaking hands with one of his colleagues, who was refusing to wear a mask.

"He said, 'I'm a superman — I won't get it,'" Mr Chellia said.

"After that, he got the virus, I got the virus, my other colleague got the virus."

But Mr Chellia feels particular guilt for passing coronavirus on to his four-year-old twin daughters.

Both have since made a full recovery.

He said the importance of getting vaccinated was really brought home during his stay in hospital when he saw the quick recovery of three other COVID-positive patients, who had each received at least one vaccine dose.

It is a mistake he does not want anyone else to make.

"If I'd also had an injection, it wouldn't have got to that stage," Mr Chellia said.

"Think of your families. Go and get vaccinated."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-24/ ... /100489814

[sprintcyclist]

.......... About 15 per cent of positive COVID cases (5,896 people) have been hospitalised since June 16 and 4 per cent of those (222) were fully vaccinated.

Three quarters of people in hospital with COVID were not vaccinated or had only received one dose.

Being fully vaccinated was also highly protective against ending up in intensive care.

Just nine of the 472 people who were in ICU were fully vaccinated. ......

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-29/ ... /100497770