Global Warming

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Outlaw Yogi
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Outlaw Yogi » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:20 pm

Chard wrote:
Outlaw Yogi wrote:But it was enough to cause 3 global floods ; 17,000 years ago, 14,000 years ago, and then again 11,600 years ago. You may know the last one as Noah's flood or King Gilgamesh's deluge.
No, Noah's flood was a delusion. Rising sea levels are not "global floods" by any means. Also, the dates are completely wrong for post-ice age sea level rise eleven millenia ago to coincide with King Gilgamesh, since his reign over Uruk happened around 2500BC.
No, Noah's flood, a reproduction of Gilgamesh's Deluge is/was an account of an event that is marked in the geological record.
The legendary tale(s) is/are no doubt embelished, but the 3 global floods since the last glacial maximum (21,000 to 18,000 years ago) are recorded in rock strata ect.
Rising sea levels, induced by increased global temps, are only one factor, with consequences of their own, like aquifer and ground salinity due to saline invasion. Some people realise vast areas of cropping lands will become salt pans, but not many realise salt dissolves bricks and cement. So entire cities are going to fall down on a global scale as the salt causes walls and foundations to crumble.
The floods are two fold. First there are less storms in frequency as clouds become more absorbent and hold water for longer, thus more drought and increased intensity of storms when it finally does rain.
Rising sea levels by themselves are indeed floods by themself. Numerous times in Earth's distant past sea levels have been much higher than they are now. This is why you can find sea shells in sand stone 500 metres above sea level in areas unaffected by seismic uplift.
During the last ice age oceans were 120 metres lower than now, making it easy for people and animals to migrate around the planet.
I did some calculations in the mid 2000s and worked out there's enough frozen water to raise sea levels by 97 metres. Then did a conservative prognostication of 80 metres to compare with topographical maps, just to see how far inland and up river system sea water would intrude.
I have also looked into the speed at which these global flooding events occur and noticed it was generally about 5 times faster than our current so called experts are predicting.
If that makes me a doomsayer, so be it, but at least I'll be more prepared than the average Joe. And the naysayers will not be welcome on my mountain. Infact I'll probably eat them.




Outlaw Yogi wrote:Personally, in with regards to GHGs I'd be paying more attention to CH4 and NO2 ... and investigating what impacts Precession of the Equinoxes has impacted climate alterations in the past.
Chard wrote:Neither CH4 or NO2 or even SO2 are produced in anywhere near the amounts that CO2 is produced by natural or man-made sources.
CH4 and NO2 don't have to be released in any where near the volumes as CO2 because they are so much more potent GHGs.
CH4 is 24 times more heat holding/trapping than CO2, and NO2 is ten time more heat holding/trapping than CH4. Thus 240 time more potent than CO2.
So we have veg nazis blaming the beef industry for (supposedly CH4 induced) global warming but it's miniscule compared to the volumes of the far more potent NO2 released by agriculture every time a farmer fertilizes their crops.

Years ago a veg nazi who used to be a PA member blamed cows for global warming. I did the sums (2007 figures). Domestic and wild cattle release 20mT of CH4 annually. Multiply by 10 for CO2 equivalent equals 240mT CO2. Coal fired power stations alone release 4700mt CO2.
Then veg nazis claimed beef production polluted more in green house gas terms than transport. Again I did the sums. An English or European car pollutes 11 more than a cow, an Australian car pollutes 12 times more than a cow, and an American car pollutes 13 times more than a cow.
Nothing they say stacks up when scrutinised.

I could bang on about this till the planet boils over, but couldn't be bothered anymore. The point is most of you will be homeless or drown without a boat in the next few decades, and I'm not prepared to share my high ground with you.
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Rorschach
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Rorschach » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:42 pm

Exactly IQS.... :roll:
Gee do you think that because the planet Venus is much closer to the Sun that that might have some bearing on the situation there.
Venus 108million kms av.
Earth 150 million kms av.
Hmmm then there's; the planet speed of rotation too of course, and...
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Chard
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Chard » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:07 am

IQS.RLOW wrote:If global warming bedwetters are allowed to use weather conditions to highlight global warming alarmism, then its fair play to point out that in a world that is supposed to be on a global temperature rise catastrophe, the coldest temp ever recorded has just occurred.
Pointing out a change in global mean temp and pointing out a local area temp over a small part of a single continent are two entirely different things. One is an indication that the planet as a whole is in a warming trend and the other means the weather in your immediate area has changed for a few hours or days.

You do know what the terms "global" and "warming" actually mean, right? I'm talking about in context of climate science.
Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy the FEAR to attack. - Dr. Strangelove

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Super Nova
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Super Nova » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:37 am

I though everyone understood that climate change ... warming means greater extremes. No surprise the coldest has been registered as that would be an extreme plus we are getting better at the science behind measuring.
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Chard
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Chard » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:41 am

Outlaw Yogi wrote:No, Noah's flood, a reproduction of Gilgamesh's Deluge is/was an account of an event that is marked in the geological record.
Two points of calling bullshit here.

1. King Gilgamesh was an actual person. He was the fifth king of Uruk (Summeria, what's modern day Iraq), and his rule happened around 2500BC. You can do math, correct? Subtract 2500 from 11,600 (Your claim for the most recent "global flood") and you'll not that there's a 9100 year difference between when you say a "globalflood" happened and when King Gilgamesh actually walked the Earth.

2. "Global Flooding" myths are just that, myths. Unless you're confusing sea level rise for biblical style global floods, in which case I have to ask if you even know what the term "global' means.

Outlaw Yogi wrote:The legendary tale(s) is/are no doubt embelished, but the 3 global floods since the last glacial maximum (21,000 to 18,000 years ago) are recorded in rock strata ect.
Then show this evidence.

Outlaw Yogi wrote:Rising sea levels, induced by increased global temps, are only one factor, with consequences of their own, like aquifer and ground salinity due to saline invasion.
If we took every bit of ice looked up at both poles and every damned glacier on earth the total global rise in sea level would be less than 100m (Most of that would be Antarctica and Greenland's ice sheets). The most that happens is massive public works projects to hold the water out (I can name several cities that already do this. Hell, Denmark and the Netherlands do this on a national scale), or people move a little further inland. Flood prevention and mitigation isn't exactly new, pal.

Outlaw Yogi wrote:Some people realise vast areas of cropping lands will become salt pans, but not many realise salt dissolves bricks and cement.
Christ, it's like you've never even been to a harbor or seen a ship before...

Ok, salt can't dissolve brick or stone or concrete. Wave action can erode such, but the most salt will do is slightly accelerate rust in things like rebar, and with proper inspection and maintenance you can keep salt water corrosion from happening at all.

Outlaw Yogi wrote: This is why you can find sea shells in sand stone 500 metres above sea level in areas unaffected by seismic uplift.
There's no such thing as areas unaffected by seismic uplift on geologic time scales. This also ignores other phenomena that can deposit fossils far above where sea level is.

Outlaw Yogi wrote:During the last ice age oceans were 120 metres lower than now, making it easy for people and animals to migrate around the planet.
Closer to 130m, but whatever.

Outlaw Yogi wrote:I did some calculations in the mid 2000s and worked out there's enough frozen water to raise sea levels by 97 metres. Then did a conservative prognostication of 80 metres to compare with topographical maps, just to see how far inland and up river system sea water would intrude.
Really? Then show me your maths, data sets used to arrive at your conclusions, and the methodology used to arrive at your conclusions.

By the way, actual scientists did this, go together with National Geographic and posted an interactive map that shows you exactly what the world would look like if you melted all the ice. Turns out most that happens to Australia is you get a large lake in an area no one really gives a fuck about. We'd lose Florida and a good chunk of the Gulf Coast, but really it's nothing we can't live without.

Outlaw Yogi wrote:CH4 and NO2 don't have to be released in any where near the volumes as CO2 because they are so much more potent GHGs.
CH4 is 24 times more heat holding/trapping than CO2, and NO2 is ten time more heat holding/trapping than CH4. Thus 240 time more potent than CO2.
And when your output of CO2 is an order of magnitude higher than your output of CH4 and NO2, CO2 is the bigger threat.

Way to miss the point entirely.

Outlaw Yogi wrote:So we have veg nazis blaming the beef industry for (supposedly CH4 induced) global warming but it's miniscule compared to the volumes of the far more potent NO2 released by agriculture every time a farmer fertilizes their crops.
Which is nothing compared to the amount of CO2 being pumped out by modern industry, or from natural vulcanism.

Again, way to miss the point.

Outlaw Yogi wrote:I could bang on about this till the planet boils over, but couldn't be bothered anymore. The point is most of you will be homeless or drown without a boat in the next few decades,
Considering that the total amount of sea level rise annually is 2.9-3.4mm, I've got to ask what drugs your on and where I can purchase some?
Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy the FEAR to attack. - Dr. Strangelove

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Chard
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Chard » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:49 am

Super Nova wrote:I though everyone understood that climate change ... warming means greater extremes. No surprise the coldest has been registered as that would be an extreme plus we are getting better at the science behind measuring.
Close.

Climatologists are a kind of scientist. In science when we talk about warming we're actually talking about heat. When we're talking about heat we're actually talking about a change in energy state with in a system. This means "warming" is an increase in energy with in a system. Combined with the term "global" and what we mean is that global warming is a net addition to the energy state of the entire planet's atmosphere.

That increase in energy is what drives increasingly drastic changes in weather over large areas and extreme temporary changes locally. This is because our atmosphere is basically a giant heat engine trying to move the energy around to a state of thermal equilibrium. Since energy keeps coming in needed to be distributed we get weather. Some places will get hotter, but counter-intuitively some places with actually get colder, up to a point. Eventually global mean could rise to the point where the average temp means temps below a certain point just aren't possible. Look at our planetary neighbor Venus as an example of this.
Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy the FEAR to attack. - Dr. Strangelove

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Rorschach
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Rorschach » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:00 am

Don't you love the true believers... SN, still in there desperately trying to find reasons to believe... moving goalposts and changing language and tact at every roadblock..

Warming means Warming not greater extremes SN.
I know we had Warming. cooling, warming, dimming, warming, etc... then you lot gave up and called it climate change... I know you gotta cover your arses.... better than being an apostate right.

But really....
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Super Nova
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Super Nova » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:58 pm

Rorschach wrote:Don't you love the true believers... SN, still in there desperately trying to find reasons to believe... moving goalposts and changing language and tact at every roadblock..

Warming means Warming not greater extremes SN.
I know we had Warming. cooling, warming, dimming, warming, etc... then you lot gave up and called it climate change... I know you gotta cover your arses.... better than being an apostate right.

But really....
But really when you make this sort of statement "Warming means Warming not greater extremes SN." it show you do not understand.

Warming means greater extremes.

I accept your surrender and your admission you need to do some more research on the subject :h

Global Warming and Extreme Weather

Global warming is making hot days hotter, rainfall and flooding heavier, hurricanes stronger and droughts more severe. This intensification of weather and climate extremes will be the most visible impact of global warming in our everyday lives. It is also causing dangerous changes to the landscape of our world, adding stress to wildlife species and their habitat.

http://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Threats-to- ... ather.aspx
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IQS.RLOW
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Re: Global Warming

Post by IQS.RLOW » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:14 pm

Global warming is making hot days hotter, rainfall and flooding heavier, hurricanes stronger and droughts more severe...blah blah blah
What a shame for you that none of that is true.
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Rorschach
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Rorschach » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:43 pm

Super Nova wrote:
Rorschach wrote:Don't you love the true believers... SN, still in there desperately trying to find reasons to believe... moving goalposts and changing language and tact at every roadblock..

Warming means Warming not greater extremes SN.
I know we had Warming. cooling, warming, dimming, warming, etc... then you lot gave up and called it climate change... I know you gotta cover your arses.... better than being an apostate right.

But really....
But really when you make this sort of statement "Warming means Warming not greater extremes SN." it show you do not understand.

Warming means greater extremes.

I accept your surrender and your admission you need to do some more research on the subject :h

Global Warming and Extreme Weather

Global warming is making hot days hotter, rainfall and flooding heavier, hurricanes stronger and droughts more severe. This intensification of weather and climate extremes will be the most visible impact of global warming in our everyday lives. It is also causing dangerous changes to the landscape of our world, adding stress to wildlife species and their habitat.

http://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Threats-to- ... ather.aspx
I understand perfectly thank you and I understand English perfectly well too.
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