Urination at War

[mantra]

I think you don't understand capitalists. It is much cheaper to bribe, than it is to fund a war, when all you are talking about is profit.

Wars are an investment and an excellent one at that. Bribery only pays off short term. There are obscene profits to be reaped from the collateral repercussions of wars. Perhaps the cannon fodder doesn't fare too well - but those in high places do.

I mean how do you know it is a puppet government and just a pretense at democracy? Are you arguing that it fits in with your world view, therfor it is true? Nothing you have said here is mutually exclusive with a genuine democracy.

No, it has nothing to do with my view or yours - it has to do with the views of the people of Afghanistan and they're the ones who are supposed to embrace democracy - our way. Just because the Coalition of the Willing says western "democracy" is essential to their well being doesn't make it a fact.

Afghanistan has an allegedly corrupt president who's only answerable to the US and is free to indulge in bribery, nepotism and electoral fraud to achieve his goals. If he's happy, then he dances to the tune the US play for him.

He doesn't give a stuff about "his" people and Afghanistan is now more violent and unstable than it has been for a decade, with the Taliban even more firmly entrenched than ever before.

[freediver]

No, it has nothing to do with my view or yours - it has to do with the views of the people of Afghanistan and they're the ones who are supposed to embrace democracy - our way.

So how do you know what they think?

[boxy]

I think you don't understand capitalists. It is much cheaper to bribe, than it is to fund a war, when all you are talking about is profit.

Wars are an investment and an excellent one at that. Bribery only pays off short term. There are obscene profits to be reaped from the collateral repercussions of wars. Perhaps the cannon fodder doesn't fare too well - but those in high places do.

LOL.

Since when has "war for profit" worked out for the good old US of A?

It's a myth.

There are sections of society that profit. But they don't control much.
Seriously, they don't.

Warmongers get voted out, unless they show benefit... real benefit, to their constituents.

[freediver]

These cute little theories about faceless men pulling strings are much easier to cope with than the reality of modern politics.

[IQS.RLOW]

These cute little theories about faceless men pulling strings are much easier to cope with than the reality of modern politics.

And your green day in the sun will be brought to a halt.

Shame you cant recognise that you are but trying to be one of the faceless men...maybe you do

[mantra]

No, it has nothing to do with my view or yours - it has to do with the views of the people of Afghanistan and they're the ones who are supposed to embrace democracy - our way.

So how do you know what they think?

Put yourself in their shoes. Their country has been under attack for 30 years. Could you live with that sort of terror year after year after year not knowing whether you're home was going to be bombed during the night, step on a landmine, get tortured by the Taliban or shot by a member of the invading army?

The health services are completely inadequate with a shortage of most necessities and although attending school is now legal for female children, very few make it there due to the many obstacles put in their path. Food is in short supply as well as work. The only regular work being offered is by the Taliban and then they become the "enemy". Most infrastructure is damaged beyond repair - regardless of the promises to rebuild the basics. They are living like starving animals.

Due you believe they're happy with their lot FD?

[mantra]

Wars are an investment and an excellent one at that. Bribery only pays off short term. There are obscene profits to be reaped from the collateral repercussions of wars. Perhaps the cannon fodder doesn't fare too well - but those in high places do.

LOL.

Since when has "war for profit" worked out for the good old US of A?

It's a myth.

There are sections of society that profit. But they don't control much.
Seriously, they don't.

Warmongers get voted out, unless they show benefit... real benefit, to their constituents.

Obviously governments have to foot the bill and the Americans are spending something like $20 billion a month - but they are only lackeys for the multinationals.

Perhaps the governments who pursue these wars have been bribed? Ultimately it's the tax payer who foots the bill so others can gain. Has any government been able to justify the costs of invading Afghanistan and Iraq whether it be in human suffering or financial - aside from the profiteers?

Someone has to be making a lot of money, otherwise we would have walked away by now, or not even gone there to begin with. There has never been any justification to invade either of these nations.

International arms dealers

Others make their money by cooperating with the authorities. Basil Zaharoff's Vickers Company sold weapons to all the parties involved in the Chaco War. Companies like Opel and IBM have been labeled war profiteers for their involvement with the Third Reich.

Commodity dealers

War usually leads to a shortage in the supply of commodities, which results in higher prices and higher revenues.

Politicians

Political figures taking bribes and favors from corporations involved with war production have been called war profiteers. Abraham Lincoln's first Secretary of War, Simon Cameron, was forced to resign in early 1862 after charges of corruption relating to war contracts. In 1947, Kentucky congressman Andrew J. May, Chairman of the powerful Committee on Military Affairs, was convicted for taking bribes in exchange for war contracts.

Civilian contractors

More recently, companies involved with supplying the coalition forces in the Iraq War, such as Bechtel, KBR, Blackwater and Halliburton, have come under fire for allegedly overcharging for their services. The modern private military company is also offered as an example of sanctioned war profiteering. On the opposing side, companies like Huawei Technologies, which upgraded Saddam's air-defense system between the two Gulf Wars, face accusations for dealing with Saddam Hussein or nuclear aspirant Iran.

Military contractors

Groups that profit from war are military contractors like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and General Dynamics, to name a few. Old military material has to be discarded due to age or is lost due to fighting and new and different military material is needed by the military to maintain strategic advantages over the military technologies of foreign nations which are hostile or may become hostile.

Black marketeers

A distinction can be made between war profiteers who gain by sapping military strength and those who gain by contributing to the war. For instance, during and after World War II, enormous profits were available by selling rationed goods like cigarettes, chocolate, coffee and butter on the black market. Dishonest military personnel given oversight over valuable property sometimes divert it to the black market.

Wiki..

[freediver]

No, it has nothing to do with my view or yours - it has to do with the views of the people of Afghanistan and they're the ones who are supposed to embrace democracy - our way.

So how do you know what they think?

Put yourself in their shoes. Their country has been under attack for 30 years. Could you live with that sort of terror year after year after year not knowing whether you're home was going to be bombed during the night, step on a landmine, get tortured by the Taliban or shot by a member of the invading army?

The health services are completely inadequate with a shortage of most necessities and although attending school is now legal for female children, very few make it there due to the many obstacles put in their path. Food is in short supply as well as work. The only regular work being offered is by the Taliban and then they become the "enemy". Most infrastructure is damaged beyond repair - regardless of the promises to rebuild the basics. They are living like starving animals.

Due you believe they're happy with their lot FD?

You are missing the point mantra. I was not claiming that the Afghans were happy.

How do you know it is a puppet government and just a pretense at democracy? Are you arguing that it fits in with your world view, therfor it is true? Nothing you have said here is mutually exclusive with a genuine democracy.

[Outlaw Yogi]

We've been through this a thousand times before. The Taliban were the only obstacle between the US oil conglomeration UNOCAL and their pipeline and although they had struck up an earlier deal prior to 9/11 with the Taliban - they reneged. Osama was the scapegoat held accountable for 9/11 and a good excuse to bomb Afghanistan to pieces to subdue the Taliban for "hiding" him. It's funny how it took a decade to find Osama - eventually in Pakistan where he was allegedly killed.

So, let me get this right?

The evil capitalist had an agreement with the Taliban before 9/11...

Yes, Ronald Reagan met Taliban leaders at the White house in 1995, that's when UNACAL funding for the Taliban bagan. In 1998 Clinton's admin coerced Sudan's govt to expel Usama Bin Laden as CIA and FBI intel suggested he was involved with several bombings on US embassies and a ship. Usama went to Afganistan and Pakistan. US political and financial support for the Taliban continued despite intel implying they were giving sanctuary to Usama Bin Laden. A rebuilding project for a bombed US embassy was awarded to the Bin Laden family's construction company. In May of 2001, President George W. Bush gave $43 million in aid to the Taliban Militia of Afghanistan, after they declared the cultivation and processing of opium to be illegal and "against the will of Allah". In mid 2001 Taliban leaders refused US demands they hand over Usama bin Laden. One US politician (forget name) threatened to "bomb Afganistan back to the stone age".The Talibs still refused US demands.
CIA and FBI intel of mid 2001 warned of an imminent attack inside U$A by flying hijacked jet liners into US symbols of power, so the Bush/Cheyney/Rumsfeld gang made sure there was no security on that day, and George W Bush had a meeting with Usama Bin Laden's brother on that very day.

I think you don't understand capitalists.

I think you are mistaking the perversion of capatalism for the genuine article.

[Outlaw Yogi]

How do you know it is a puppet government and just a pretense at democracy?

According to Afghan, Iranian, and Turkish government sources, Hamid Karzai, the interim Prime Minister of Afghanistan, was a top adviser to the El Segundo, California-based UNOCAL Corporation which was negotiating with the Taliban to construct a Central Asia Gas (CentGas) pipeline from Turkmenistan through western Afghanistan to Pakistan.

Afghanistan, the Taliban
and the Bush Oil Team
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/MAD201A.html