Labor engaged in secretive politics

[IQSRLOW]

Labor doing what Labor do best

Lying, hiding and overspending.

Did anyone catch Cuntroy on Insight? He looked like he was going to pop a blood vessel.

He's a sad little fuck with an arrogance that far outweighs his limited intelligence. Turnbull annihilated him

[Sappho]

Whatever.

Whatever? So, you are not up for debate then?

[IQSRLOW]

He's a Labor goon.
He can't justify it, so he will ignore it

[IQSRLOW]

Xenophon has it right

Balance of power senator Nick Xenophon told the Senate yesterday that he was supportive of the call for the Productivity Commission to carry out a cost-benefit analysis, but wants it terms of reference much broader than that proposed by Mr Turnbull to include an analysis of social benefits.

"Fundamentally – and I think this picks up on Senator Ludlam's very reasonable concerns – there should be consideration of nation building; the social and community specific benefits flowing from the NBN, having particular regard to rural and regional communities," Senator Xenophon told the Senate.
"But for goodness sake, let us ensure that we spend the money that is needed to deliver services to all Australians in a way that has a process of rigour and analysis that ensures that maximum benefit to taxpayers is being provided."

Labor is trying to deny Australians that are paying for this nightmare the right to examine this nightmare because they know that it is a nightmare. How could anyone trust Conroy to run anything. He should have been sacked long ago. The only difference between him and Peter Garrett is that Garrett has been directed to keep his fucked up mouth closed.

They are both a liability to the govt

[Sappho]

IQ... we don't actually know that it is a nightmare because Gillard has restricted our right to know such things, through a special GG ruling. What we do know is that denying the kind of reasonable and valuable information born of committees to such mamoth public works exercises, is of itself a nightmare. It is a nightmare of medievil proportions... and she said that we would move forward... pfft! And even if it was a nightmare in its first draft, a committe can still look to the social merit as cause to proceed but with a different business model. Committees help to reduce great risk, amongst other things... but not now... Gillard has made sure of that.

Monk... you need to decide if you are with Krudd on this or with Gillard; do you want a more or less transparent govt? Perhaps you were shooting too much off the cuff in blind defence of your beloved Labor. Not wise. Better to reserve your view. What Gillard did really is a slap in the face to all citizens. A great mark of disrespect. This is a mammoth public works project. The first mammoth project in some time. But what does she do... she religates the events of this epic to the off stage production; denying the people valuable and reasonable information.

[Jovial Monk]

There is a lot of info out there, you could try reading that. Then you could try contacting Conroy and ask re the GG order because I have not heard of that apart from here. This must be an accepted procedure tho.

I suggested a few things, asked some more questions, you said they were good questions then you were going to ignore them, hence the “whatever.”

There is a shitload of data, discussion and links here and here.

It is a pity the Libs are so dead against anything Labor proposes. the Libs badly stuffed up the Tesltra privatisation, not separating wholesale and retail arms allowing Telstra to set broadband prices very high. they have also not upgraded the copper and the copper is rotting in the ground—a whole new network has to be run out and it only makes sense to run out fibre which is cheaper, less expensive to maintain and offers a whole new world of performance.

Some idiots squeak that wireless should be used but they are wrong.

1. Wireless does not and never will have the bandwidth:


Now wireless connections are growing, but not at the expense of ADSL:
http://nbnexplained.org/wordpress/wp-co ... 0/10/2.jpg (you will have to click to see the image, the pathetic limits on this pathetic board won’t allow the image to show) but the amount of data downloaded is overwhelmingly going the DSL way:
http://i.imgur.com/XGCc4.png

Wireless also suffers from signal attenuation, meaning that the further you are from the antenna the weaker the signal is. To provide acceptable speeds there would need to be 80,000 antenna, all backwired with fibre so MORE expensive then the NBN! And if it rains—no bloody internet! This wireless will be fixed fireless not mobile like 3G wireless—you will have to have an antenna on the roof to get the signal, so just as tethered as if it was FTTH but nowhere near the performance!

2. Copper. the CAN run out by the PMG Dept has done a good job but it is ageing and the signals sent through the copper attenuate rapidly. You will hear of 300Mbps or whatever sent through 400m of copper in the lab, but after just a Km that signal is down to just ordinary ADSL speeds. Atenuation.



Also, the copper that is in the ground is not in good condition, Telstra locks ISPs out of certain exchanges etc etc. Scratch copper. To use copper a whole new copper CAN would need to be run out! This would be MORE expensive than FTTH!

3. Fibre to the home. Fibre is cheaper than copper, lasts longer (60 years rated average lifetime v 50 for copper) is less effected by rain filling pits etc. The NBN will offer near perfect symmetry, you can upload data nearly as fast as you can send it. This means business can use cloud computing, this means you can talk on high definition, lipsynch etc video phone calls for less than just voice as now! You can also send SMS through the NBN! It has masses of bandwidth! Running at 1Gbps now, (10Gbps soon enough) each fibre can serve 32 premises at 33Mbps 333MHz when the upgrade to 10GHz comes through and you pay to upgrade the card on your premises that terminates the NBN signal and makes it available (4 ethernet ports and 2 phone ports) to your phone/network.

The NBN will be scaleable:
If all 32 premises served by one fibre are all using it at top speed then the bandwidth available will drop from 100Mbps to 77Mbps. No other network offers this scaleability.

The NBN will be symmetric:
Videophone calls—you and a rellie, say your Mum, could each have a camera on a part of your kitchen, camera on all the time, you can have a videophone conversation just by moving into the part of the kitchen the camera is pointing at! They are already doing this in places that have fibre! Just think about that for a minute! Since the Netherlands is also running out fibre I can soon talk to my rellies in Holland, with video, for way cheaper than phoneing them now even with a phone card! The elderly can have more advanced monitoring than the emergency button or daily phone call now! The bandwidth and symmetry will allow huge advances!

NBN will be upgradeable:
I reckon some upgrades can be done by just “flashing” the ROM in the termination card, but hell I have over the last 10 years or so gone from 14kbps to 28 to 33 to 56 modem then ADSL then faster ADSL so there will be an expense to upgrade but not prohibitively so! Hell, the first computer to computer communication I did was with a 1024bps RS211 or whatever that board was called!

The price will be $10/month for just phone, then fairly normal pricing about $50/month for phone/fax/internet with 2 terabyte download limits. Unlimited in practical terms.

The sheer bandwidth will mean FTA TV will migrate to the NBN, you will have more channels, be able to record more than one channel at a time, pause movies do all sorts of things!

Let us just build the damn thing! We have a $1.2Trn economy, it hardly slowed down through the GFC, the NBN at $26Bn is such a tiny fraction of that and it is less than 10% of the govt yearly expenditure! We can afford it! $26Bn over 8 years is petty cash! And once the NBN is even halfway in place you will start to see new applications and services that our economy will receive a huge boost from this innovation.

[IQSRLOW]

He's a Labor goon.
He can't justify it, so he will ignore it

Told ya so

[Jovial Monk]

Poor old LIMITED_IQ, spewing out, no doubt, some Labor hate. Too bad, cretin, the NBN will be rolled out and it will be great!

[Sappho]

There is a lot of info out there, you could try reading that.

A govt. committee, if one was allowed, would collate that information for me as is their role as our representatives. In a Democracy, we rely on our Representatives to get that information to the people.

Then you could try contacting Conroy and ask re the GG order because I have not heard of that apart from here. This must be an accepted procedure tho.

You have not heard of it anywhere else eh? You didn't click the link then entitled 'source'? You don't read the ABC political stories? I am beginning to suspect that you don't actually care to think about this issue.

I suggested a few things, asked some more questions, you said they were good questions then you were going to ignore them, hence the “whatever.”

I pointed out that the answers to your questions provide support or not for your views, not my views. It is in your interest to answer those questions for the sake of your argument. My argument does not require such questions to be asked or answered. My argument already has its evidence presented and referenced. But, you would complain to me that I ignore questions important to your argument that you refuse to answer and therefore ignore equally.

This has gone far enough. You are not interested in genuine and intelligent debate. You are interested in point scoring and obstruction... a lot like Gillard actually.

[Jovial Monk]

Whatever.