Christians are not Christian anymore.

[Sappho]

I was talking to my dear and quite old mum last night (being the night owl she is)... and we talked to the wee hours about Christianity and its unravelling.

The first point of contention was the label Christian which people ascribe to themselves. Mum was accepting of their self identification as Christians and then spoke about the church having failed them all, including herself.

I argued that self identifying as a Christian does not a Christian make. I used the example of women self identifying as men... does that make them men? I asked. No! Of course not! So should we then call them men because they self identify as such? No... it would be rather silly to do so because it would misrepresent reality. Likewise, it is silly and would be a misrepresentation of reality to accept the self identification of anti Christians as being Christians. More than that, it is a profound insult to Real Christians who talk the talk AND more significantly walk the walk.

So let's define an anti Christian. Quite simply, anti Christians are those people who do not honour or obey Divine Morality as dictated by God and reinterpreted (but not changed mind you) by Jesus, yet will call themselves Christian nonetheless. So, to be anti Christian is not about your belief in God... you can believe in God and still be an anti Christian. Nor is about your worship habits... you can attend church faithfully and still be an anti Christian. Definitely, it is about the conflict between Modern Ethics and Divine Morality, with the anti Christians showing and living a preference for the former and not the latter.

Morality, it must be understood, is the defining feature of a society. Islam for example looks to be an entirely different lifestyle because of its Divine Morality dictating what it can and cannot do... what it should and should not do. Morality puts checks and measures on the freedoms of individual and social living. Morality directs the development of culture and civilization. Morality then is a fundamental factor defining who we are as individuals and societies. And therefore, you cannot determine who a person is by the label they claim for themselves, you must look to their actions. Actions really do speak louder than words.

And it is the actions of the anti Christian which proves that they are not Christian. Too easily do these anti Christians support the popular theme of the day. Curiously, such people cannot even make reference to the key principles that guide Divine Morality... or Humanism for that matter. So, in essence, such anti Christians are devoid of moral consideration... just moving with the flow of what is and is not allowed accepting popularised reasons as their reasons for moving with that flow.

As a result... there are many women who identify as Christian who have had an abortion using reasons that amount to nothing more than... 'I'm not ready and all alternatives (adoption or motherhood) are too hard.' Does this anti Christianism make reference to the Divine Morality of the Sacred Life? No! Does this anti Christianism make reference to the Humanist believe that 'actual' persons have more rights than 'potential' persons? No! They merely emote without intellectual engagement.

Other examples include the sexualization of womanhood, the increase of violent crime, the hedonist abuses and promiscuity... none of which are Christian... yet too many in those examples will on their census paper claim they are indeed Christian.

[Jovial Monk]

A christian is one who accepts Christ existed and follows his preachings. Can’t see what a church has to do with it, christianity is in the heart.

[mellie]

And I cant see what terminating a pregnancy has to do with Christianity, or even marriage really, aferall, wasn't Jesus himself born out of wedlock?

Peoples beliefs and these sorts of decisions are very personal, and really, not all who have them do so for selfish reasons.

What about those woman who terminate their pregnancies because the foetus is found to have a very serious deformity or defect?

Established/borrowed beliefs have a way of rendering people un-empowered, (as can all faiths when taken to the extreme) see, rather than think for themselves, define their own moral code,,,determine right from wrong...(to have an abortion, or not to have one) .. they refer to a little book written a long time ago.. and whilst some values, principles are timeless , should thinking modern man need a little book to tell him how he should live his life, what decisions to make, weather or not to murder the bloke next door. A little book written over and over again by a perfect stranger, who spoke a different language, and lived long before your time thousands of years ago?

My daughter went to school with a little girl with arms about 12 inches long, and her mother had the same genetic deformed twisted little arms.

She fell pregnant on purpose, and said her deformed little girl was gods will.

I think this is why mankind love beliefs so much, because for one, it's easier to prescribe to a code / belief then make the difficult decisions yourself, and secondly, it's comforting knowing no matter how bad you stuff up, it was gods will, he had his reasons, and was all part of a divine master-plane.

It's wishful thinking and a cop-out!

I respect peoples beliefs, it's just my faith is that which I have come to rely upon as an independent person who likes to make decisions for myself.

I do have a type of philosophy,, though, not a religion per say...more of a code...a set of principles and rules I adhere to not because I fear burning in hell, and or not being rewarded in heaven, but because I want to.


We all have our code, be it our own, or one we have borrowed from an established belief system.

It's just, I like to write my own.

[mellie]

Ps...would this topic be best placed in general?

Or was posting it here in politics gods will...

Ignore me, I'm just messing with you ...



If god had a political lean, what do you think it would be?

[mellie]

I'm a bit of a mongrel really, I like reading about all sorts of beliefs, rarer the better, and just take on board what I think make sense.

I find all beliefs fascinating or at least interesting.

Would you laugh at me if I told you I had a copy of the Torah (5 books of Moses) Koran and Holy Bible... and many others you might think I were a bit weird if I told you.

[muffdiver]

reckon youd make the most devout christian do anything

[mellie]

Who me? Or were you talking to sappo?

[freediver]

So it is not for Christians to define what Christianity is, it is for Sappho, even if she can't get round to actually defining it?

[muffdiver]

Who me? Or were you talking to sappo?

of course you
theres no one else in this world that captures my ahum "attention"

[lisa jones]

A generalization as a topic title .. hmm interesting.